Evening out classes

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kraal
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 am

Evening out classes

Post by kraal »

I have replied to a few threads here and been told that a lot of the recent changes have been to even out classes. That is fair enough. I was thinking though, why not even then out by making them complementary and accentuating the differences. I'll put my ideas forward, however it would be a major change that may well have many people upset.

The premise is that we accentuate the differences by refining classes strengths and weaknesses. For example:

Mage: Very strong attacks, weak defence
Warrior: Very strong defence, average attack
Assassin: Very fast but average attack, average defence

I play as a mage and have little experience in other classes other than seeing them in action, so I will use the mage as an example. All classes have comparable behaviours. You could push the mage even further towards the glass cannon idea by removing the "normal" attack (ie. staff attack) or at the very least make it even weaker than it currently is. Mages only use magic. Decrease the time between activations for the spells to compensate. Only allowing mages to use basic armour and rely on armour spells (eg protection) would further enforce this. Protection could have a 30 second duration, and a recharge of only 10 seconds. You would have to change spells mid fight and keep an eye on your protection. Your equipment/skills could decrease recharge times and increase durations. When a mage runs out of magic (ie recharging), they basically become fodder. This would mean you would have to think a lot more.

The other classes could follow suit. Make warriors hard to kill, but not deal out huge damage (in it for the long haul). Make assassins the middle ground - damage somewhere between a mage and warrior, and defence again somewhere between. This would even things out - think of the immovable object meeting the irresistible force.

I realise this will probably never be able to be implemented as it is a big jump, but maybe use the idea to more define the classes. It is ok for mages to have ridiculous attacks, because when they are finished, they are basically gonners. Make warriors harder to kill and assassins are the middle ground.

kraal
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 am

Re: Evening out classes

Post by kraal »

Reading this again, I might not have been overly clear. I suppose what I mean is widening the differences in complementary behaviours. Start with all classes with average attack/defence. Increase attack at the expense of defence (mage). Increase defence at the expense of attack (warrior). Keep the average for both (assassin). Currently, it seems as though all classes are geared to getting the same attack and defence rather than strengths and weaknesses. Clear as mud?

Exre
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm

Re: Evening out classes

Post by Exre »

I don’t think this is a good idea.
First of all right now all the classes don’t seem to be equal at all( at least speaking about epic gear). Idk how balanced legendary is between classes, but all the rarities are supposed to be balanced not just one.
And as far as epic goes mage is still the best, followed by assassin and then warrior.
Having a char which has both strong and ranged damage makes him overpowered by itself. We’ve seen that after the update when the amulets, rings of mage were drastically increased before being nerfed again. Warrior on the other hand would become even worse with your suggestion. Warrior already has a high hp and even decent damage yet he’s no match for the mage. The mage’s weak defensive won’t matter that much when he has big ranged damage which would leave opponents dead or half dead before they even get to him.
With your suggestion the mage would become even stronger and warrior would become even weaker which in my mind is the exact opposite of what needs to happen right now.

kraal
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 am

Re: Evening out classes

Post by kraal »

I'm not trying to argue, but you keep saying the mage is powerful. Maybe I just have awful equipment (epic level 2 all reinforced to blacksmith level 5). I am level 50, max luck, max speed, the rest in strength. My staff does 341 damage every second, and my most powerful skill is freezing bolt (about 1600). I was running with an assassin the other day who did 800 damage several times a second with just his weapon. The only thing I can compete with is blizzard or meteor shower (or whatever it is called) - and they are a one off, that do 3-4k damage over 5 seconds with a 30 seconds cool down. The DPS of my mage is pitiful next to the assassin.

The only advantage mages have is long range fire and run type conflict. Yes, mages can take on any monster single handed with enough patience. So long as you carefully time your spells, and do a lot of back peddling, you will eventually kill any monster and not be hit in return. If that is powerfull, then I stand corrected. Time taken to kill a monster say 20k+ is several times longer for a mage than the other two, however crowds of weak monsters are fodder for a mage. Maybe it evens out, but I have yet to see a mage anywhere near as fast at killing big monsters as an assassin/warrior.

itssBlue
Moderator
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:09 pm

Re: Evening out classes

Post by itssBlue »

With the new gear, balance adjustments etc. We want the classes to be relatively even so that all builds can shine in their own way :)

Exre
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:26 pm

Re: Evening out classes

Post by Exre »

kraal wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:34 pm
I'm not trying to argue, but you keep saying the mage is powerful. Maybe I just have awful equipment (epic level 2 all reinforced to blacksmith level 5). I am level 50, max luck, max speed, the rest in strength. My staff does 341 damage every second, and my most powerful skill is freezing bolt (about 1600). I was running with an assassin the other day who did 800 damage several times a second with just his weapon. The only thing I can compete with is blizzard or meteor shower (or whatever it is called) - and they are a one off, that do 3-4k damage over 5 seconds with a 30 seconds cool down. The DPS of my mage is pitiful next to the assassin.

The only advantage mages have is long range fire and run type conflict. Yes, mages can take on any monster single handed with enough patience. So long as you carefully time your spells, and do a lot of back peddling, you will eventually kill any monster and not be hit in return. If that is powerfull, then I stand corrected. Time taken to kill a monster say 20k+ is several times longer for a mage than the other two, however crowds of weak monsters are fodder for a mage. Maybe it evens out, but I have yet to see a mage anywhere near as fast at killing big monsters as an assassin/warrior.
You know the mage of the same level as assassin or warrior has bigger but slower basic hit damage.
If you do 341 with basic hit then comparing yourself to an assassin that does 800 damage with basic hits is ridiculous. Either those were critical hits or you’re comparing yourself to an assassin with much higher gear than yourself. If you had a gear of similar level to an assassin that would deal 800 dmg per hit then you would deal over 1k with your hits easily so don’t compare your mage with assassins that have a gear which is 10 times better than your mage’s.

In a 1-1 a good mage can easily leave the target close to death or dead by the time you use all your skills and even when your skills run out the stuff you said about mage becoming fodder isn’t true at all. Mage has a chance spawn skill on almost every part of it’s equipment and any of those has a chance of spawning on every hit you make. Even assassin doesn’t have that many chance spawns and not to mention almost all of the chance spawn skills on mage equipment are group damage skills which will help no matter if you’re facing one or multiple targets. The only class that actually becomes fodder when skills run out is warrior, yet the only thing they’ve done in this update is decrease the power and duration of it’s skills making it even weaker.

And personally i have an assassin with 350k cp and i’ve seen mages with epic gear kill mobs much faster than me.
Your DPS compared to assassin is pitiful because your comparing yourself to assassins that have 10 or 20 times as much cp as yours.
If you compare your 341 dmg mage to an assassin of the same gear he will do 200 or maybe if we’re being generous 250 with his basic hits, not 800 lol.
Mage right now is more than good enough compared to assassin or especially compared to how much the warrior sucks.

kraal
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 am

Re: Evening out classes

Post by kraal »

Fair points. I suppose I was right when I said I have awful equipment :) It is the best I have found in 6 months though.....Totally agree about mobs - the mage rules for mobs. That is my bread and butter. I wonder how everyone else gets such good kit though - I am guessing they buy (with real money) it. Just for reference, my mage is 66k cp, so yes, I must be weaker than the one I saw dealing 800 every strike. Oh well, back to the grind, hopefully I'll find one of the legendary weapons and I'll stop complaining ;)

kraal
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 am

Re: Evening out classes

Post by kraal »

When I say mobs, I mean mobs of monsters (eg 20 skeletons). I saw that some posts here refer to a single enemy as a mob (monster?). Mages eat mobs for breakfast for all the reasons you give :)

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